Two Words: Beer. And Church. Discuss.

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Comments

[Drew]

I'm going to go out on a limb here guys. I think it's a great idea. Lets be real about what the bible says. It says not to get drunk on strong drink. It doesn't say don't drink. Yes, there are people who can't control the situation, one drink leads to another, and another and another. There are plenty of responsible people out there who can have one drink and enjoy themselves and not be anything like drunk. The people who think this is a bad idea to start with and that all drinking is bad are half the reason churches have to resort to thinks like this to get people to show up. The hard liners and radicals will always run off everyone but the hardliners and radicals, the net end result is there are people who are too scared of being judged to show up and find out what God's love is all about - that you don't have to be perfect. That you can be a responsible Christian, and still have a beer with your pals on Friday afternoon.

[Brant]

I think you make sense, Drew.

But...where it gets odd: When you do it en masse, you don't know anyone's personal stories. And that could be troublesome.

Jesus made wine. Paul said it's good for your stomach. Shoot, wine becomes metaphor for the Kingdom in the O.T and N.T.

That said, why do we think we need to attract people into our building so badly? One size does not fit all, one pastor cannot pastor everybody, and when you're with your friends, YOU can know the dynamic, your own story with alcohol, and your friends' experience or difficulties.

For some reason, I made the poll, but didn't include my own preferred option: Let's love people into our community, not spend so much effort and money based on an attractional model that leaves the Good News to professional experts.

[Jeff]

I'm gonna draw line at bong hits, though.

[Carolyn Vogt]

Having a beer with friends and using it to entice people into their church building is not the same thing at all. I'm with Brant. People should be drawn to your church because you've exemplified the gospel in your life through love and they want to find out more, not because the beer is cheap that day. That cheapens the gospel in my opinion.

[Matt]

in my opinion, we shouldn't be tempting people to get drunk just trying to get them to our service. i agree with brant we should love them in, if we don't want to encourage drinking in excess, we shouldn't encourage drinking period.

[Mike]

I guess it depends. Guinness? Yes, I can see how that might work. Bud Light? Not so much.

[Melinda]

My husband and I drink alcoholic beverages, but we do this at home or occasionally in a restaurant. We do not hide this fact, however we would not drink in someone else's home or take alcohol to church functions so as to not be a stumbling block to those who would be offended. Also, we do not drink in excess and are able to limit ourselves.

[frank]

so how do i explain this to a parent whose child was killed by a driver dui.

[Bradford]

How about option D? It's a good idea, not because we have to desperately find some way to get butts in the church seats. It's just a good idea.

I mean, free beer. Duh.

As long as it's not Bud Light, though.

[Joy]

and, what time of day were they passing out the beer? My church's services are on Sunday morning . . .

[Lori]

I agree--let's love them in. Let's go out to where they are, and just love them. Show them we love them no matter who they are, no matter where they are in life, and love them to Christ. Trying to lure them in to church by worldly means can lead to a negative circumstance. Like you said, we don't know their stories, and we could actually be causing harm in someone's life. I heard it said once, "If the sin is wrong, then the road to sin is wrong." I don't remember Christ luring anyone in with worldly things, just His words and actions. Teaching and loving. It's better to be safe, than sorry.. :)

[Laura]

Many Catholic dioceses have something called Theology on Tap, where a speaker comes once a month to a bar to talk apologetics. It's a great way to show that Christians drink alcohol and do it responsibly. And it's a great way to reach other people who might not otherwise hear about God.

beer + God = :o) in my book!

[Tabby]

I cannot see using a beer as a way to gain membership. I know that today pastors have a hard time gaining members, but using something that promotes the opposite of Christianity is not the way to go. Beer is a wordly symbol of partying an having a good time. Suppose an acholic was coming to the church for the first time. Would this service really show him how to break his addiction?

Jesus Christ needs to be enough. Praying, Reading, Studying, and follwing His ways are going to bring people in. They will see something different in you. Jesus never used things to gain followers. He was just so close to God that others followed the light in him. The truth will set people free if we let it. We must let go of our mind set, our desires, and our ways. His ways must consume us. It is like Jeremy Camp's song says "Take my life, take my mind, take my soul, take my will...I am Your's Lord, I give it all to You."

[DezSpence]

I saw a huge billboard on a busy highway which read "World's Largest Stip Club...come get naked with Jesus" This was an ad for a church...Now we have beer, what's next Free Porn Sundays. People get a grip, Jesus did not have to "BRIBE" anyone to go to temple, to hear or heed His messages, or to follow Him. So what makes this way of thinking okay. Preach the good news of the gospel, people either receive or they don't...Free beer is not going to save any souls. This is nonsense and simply more deception of the enemy; while the world laughs at the dumb desperation of the 'religiou' folks. Besides, anyone going to church just for free beer already has the wrong motive.

[Bob]

I was stationed in Europe in the Army, and I know that Europeans have a completely different take on a lot of things than Americans do. So, unless the church was giving out the beers solely to get men to attend, I can't say its wrong for them. I don't think it's a good idea for a church here in America to do it though. It would be cheaper and probably more effective to give out scratch offs.

[Flo]

Hmm... I can see why they might have done that. It brings in TONS of other people to their church... It might bring in people just for the beer, and once they get involved with the church, they can find God there...
But I would have to agree with the people against the free beer...
We aren't supposed to bribe them to go to church. If the members came only for free beer... then isn't the whole purpose of church falling down the drain? Even the Word on the WAY for 6.23.09 says not to give into bribes--They blind the eyes of the wise.
People go to church to learn about God. They go there to learn to be more like Him. We go there to be affected by his Word and Way, not by free beer.

[Carol]

Hmmm...how do we get the message of the gospel to those who need it are? Oh yeah, we do what Jesus did and take the message to them where they are, not entice them to come to where we are by using what could be one of their stumbling blocks or our own stumbling block.

[Ally]

The Bible tells us not to be a stumbling block. If you have an alcoholic attending that day, I would say you were being a stumbling block. I don't have a problem with drinking in moderation, but I don't think free beer as an enticement to get someone to church is a good idea.

[Melissa]

I don't think the issue here is really the serving of beer. I think the issue here is the integrity of the church in relation to what means we use to get people to come. A pastor once offered to kiss a pig if his church had a certain number attend on a Sunday morning. Did they achieve that number? Yes. Did he kiss a pig? Yes. But the next Sunday - back to normal numbers. It was a gimmick, just as I think this serving beer is. The gospel should be what propels us - not gimmicks.

[Casey]

I had a good friend in high school that was not a Christian... he stood by that whole-heartedly. Do you know what his reasoning was?? "I'm a better person than most of the people here that claim to be Christians. I don't drink and party like a lot of them do." I tried talking to him several times-- inviting him to chrisitan events, to church, or just having a conversation with him about the subject. Each time, he made a reference to drinking.

As Christians, it is so important that we keep ourselves pure... that we hold up our testimony. People are watching us-- and they Need to see something different in us.

I agree with many of the previous posters, we shouldn't have to entice or bribe people to come to church.

[Melissa Baxter]

The bible says to work for God. It doesn't say bribe them with beer to get them to listen to your message. You get people to church using God's word, not the devil's liquid and that is what beer is to me and while I do believe the lost need to be in church, I DO NOT think offering them fermented drink is the way to get them there. What kind of message is that sending people?

A preacher once told me something that stopped all my excuses for not going to church...and believe me, I had several. My favorite, "God wouldn't want me, look at all the stuff I've done, the church would fall down if I walked in."

He was a really exciting preacher, a real fire and brimstone preacher. He yelled, he jumped up and down, he made you sweat. He made you THINK. And he made me realize that even at my lowest, God loved me.

He told me one day...Church is not for the saved alone..it's a meeting place for the lost. Church is for SINNNERS. It's the "happening hangout" to fill up on the word of Jesus and learn what it takes to be one with God. It's built to teach, not to shut out those that need the word most of all. It was then that I realized that "the church wouldn't fall if I stepped inside". I knew this all along, but it took those words to get me there.

Welcome EVERYONE, especially those that don't believe. That is how you get souls into heaven. But never once did he say, you wanna beer with your message? Never once did he ask me if I was thirsty for drink...but he did quench my thirst for the word. THROUGH JESUS...Not Budweiser.

Find a way through Christ to get people to heaven. Using drink to get numbers is wrong. ANY preacher would know this if he was truly in touch with God. Bring in the sinners with LOVE, not DRINK, because honestly, if they're there for the drink, it doesn't mean they'll listen to the message anyway.

This preacher also told me a story about a man on his deathbed...the man was fighting God, wouldn't let him in...even in the end. He kept saying, Preacher, my feet are burning...my feet are burning...but still wouldn't let God in. He was going to hell and knew it, but wouldn't reach out and open his heart. Did this man go to hell? I don't know and neither does anyone else with the exception of God, but it makes you think. If you feel your feet burning...and still won't listen...how will drinking a beer during service get you to accept God? Sin is a powerful thing. Don't encourage it.

That story scared me. It scared me enough to get me in touch with God...and THAT made all the difference. USE THE WORDS OF GOD...NOT THE TOOLS OF MAN.

To me, the problem with most Christians today are that they are "snobbish". They look at the sinners with a judgemental heart instead of welcoming them with open arms into the flock of their family. EVERYONE SINS AND FALLS SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Some Christians act as if the sinners of the world will get them "dirty" with their sins and it won't wash away...so instead of embracing them, they hold them at arms length, give them that fake smile and pretend welcome. PEOPLE PICK UP ON THAT. If you're a Christian, God washed away your sins...they can't transfer from others. Get in there and get your hands dirty helping lead others to Christ. If you can't do that, maybe you're not the Christian you thought you were. You can be saved and go to heaven even if you don't do this, but wouldn't it be so much more rewarding to enter heaven as a Soldier of Christ rather simply a Christian?

I know I've got off the subject, but I'm just writing what's in my heart and what I feel God wants me to say...so I'll try to get on to the reason I replied in the first place. I don't agree with this beer and church approach. If you want butts in the pews, PREACH it like today is the last day of the world. It may take a while, but the butts will get there. You can't turn to bribery to get people to God. How is that right? IT IS A SIN TO GET DRUNK. Offering someone something to help them get that way is WRONG any way you look at it. What kind of example are you setting? Sinners look at Christians and JUDGE GOD by their actions.

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." (Proverbs 20:1)

How can you read that passage and think drink is okay?

"Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 6:22-24)

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. (Numbers 6:1-3)

Once again...How can you read those passages and think drink is okay?

Just my opinion. I'm sorry if this jumped around a bit. Long night with my daughter...tummy aches :(

God Bless and Be Safe.

Missy Gail

[Matt Davis]

Missy,

How can you read these passages and think that drinking is not okay?:

"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice." Deut. 14:26

"...wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart. " (Psalm 104:15)

"On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine-- the best of meats and the finest of wines." (Isaiah 25:6)

"Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." (John 2:10)

Point is, the Bible speaks both positively and negatively about drinking, with the negative references being about excessive use. There are also examples of vows of abstinence, but those are never held up as being necessary for all people. For example, John the Baptist eschewed all drink, but Jesus did not. Hence, when accused of being a drunkard, Jesus said, "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by all her children." (Luke 7: 33-35.

So you can argue societal implications of alcohol use and abuse, and you can use scripture to define drunkenness as a sin, but you cannot under any circumstances use scripture to justify the position of a teetotaler, unless, of course, you pick and choose only the verses that seem to most closely support your position.

[Mel]

DezSpence:
I know the board you are talking about. Instead of critisizing..why don't you check it out. I go there..

[Sasha]

Hmm... People keep assuming this was an outreach thing. Like @Bob said, the European mindset is quite different. While I don't know the circumstances, my guess would be that it was a way of honoring Dads, not of bribing people into church. If I didn't believe in God, it would take more than a bottle of beer to get me to sit through a service. But if I were going to church anyway and left with a free pint, it just might make my day.

[gina]

oooooooh wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!:]